Learning curve?

I've pulled this quote from the "Price" thread...

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Originally Posted by zarkwizard

One thing we found in beta is the hard core testers would kick our butts...

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And it got me wondering how long, on average, do you think it'll take for a entirely new player to get up to speed on strategy and the like to be competitive with those players who've gone through the Betas? Normally one could say after a couple of games you'lll get it, but here a couple of games could be months, or on the flip side could you find yourself crushed quickly before you even get a feel for what's going on.

Could be a whole lot of worry over nothing, but I was just curious as to how long people played before they felt they got the "hang of it".

Also, is this going to be something where someone who can only check in 2-3 times a day for 10-15 minutes (or something similar) will be able to be compete with someone who's able to be on much more constantly or consistently?

Thanks for your time, and looking forward to the game!

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Originally Posted by shadowkhai

And it got me wondering how long, on average, do you think it'll take for a entirely new player to get up to speed on strategy and the like to be competitive with those players who've gone through the Betas? Normally one could say after a couple of games you'lll get it, but here a couple of games could be months, or on the flip side could you find yourself crushed quickly before you even get a feel for what's going on.

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If you scan through some of the game threads you'll see some of the things found out during beta. It was quite a bit harder in beta to pick up the game because we would implement some feature then give a brief overview then let the players have at it. Now that the tutorials are in place it's pretty simple to sit through the 2 min topic explaining how things work. The videos are very clear in how you perform specific functions. In the beta none of that existed, so they had to do a lot of "guess work" to figure out how something worked. The combat tutorial gives really good detail in to how combat works, which there was zero explanation in beta for stuff like that and trading.

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Originally Posted by shadowkhai

Also, is this going to be something where someone who can only check in 2-3 times a day for 10-15 minutes (or something similar) will be able to be compete with someone who's able to be on much more constantly or consistently?

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We have tried to keep it competitive for that type of player. Naturally if someone was seriously hard core they might have more area uncovered than you, by sending probes around to uncover their sector, and the sectors around them are pretty important in the early game, but in the end they are bound by learning times, and building times. So they won't learn any skills faster than you, and you can queue skills in the game, so if you set one skill to start training after another the new skill will start training when the one skill finishes. If you queue up ships to be built they will all be built one after the other.

We have tried to add queues to the game to help with some of the basics things, and trying to keep the game more even. So in theory if you start the game tomorrow you could queue enough skills to train for 3 weeks and not log in again for 3 weeks, and you would have the same skills as someone who has played everyday 24/7. The biggest difference is they will have built ships and explored more of the galaxy, and probably have several planets colonized.

Obviously that's pretty extreme, but once you get the hang of sending your probes around, and you can check on them a few times a day you should have a decent amount of the area uncovered. Building a ship yard right off, and setting up some basic harvesting routes in your local system, as well as a few probes to explore can be a good start to the game.. Then finding other sectors that you want to colonize is the next step so you can expand... well you get the idea of a 4X or you wouldn't be here.. :)

We have talked about coming out with servers that are specific to the type of player you are.. So having a casual server for "casual" people and hardcore for "hard core" players. But that would be after a few games and we can gather data on how much someone is playing to know if they could play on a specific server. That's in the future though..

Hopefully this has answered some of your questions. Feel free to ask anything else.

Wonderful, thanks for the response.

I've been reading through several threads and watched all the tutorials I could find, so I feel on the mechanics of play side I should be able to jump right in.

My thoughts were more on a strategy side of things, but the more I read the more everything seems pretty straight forward. I'm looking forward to giving it a go.

I think it'll be interesting the first few games.. We have wondered if we will see more fighting over planets or if people will actually trade. I think the first few games that go out will be a mismash of things. There are a a lot of skills in the game, and what you can do with them. We look forward to seeing the usage data so we can determine if things need to be fine tuned.

Only time will tell what strategies emerge, and what specialty is the most desired. We'd like to think we have given them all advantages and disadvantages, but with a game with this many choices and selections even we can't test every combo. On paper / excel the numbers work... but what does math know when it comes to people and their creative use of skills.

I for one am really looking forward to playing.. I fully don't expect to win, but I think it'll be fun bragging rights for the player that eliminates me from the game.. So you can bet I'll be trying hard not to get killed. :)

Just remember.. Don't attack Verisutha or Tsagoth in the game.. That'll be bad news.. If you see them in your sector they are looking at data.. Just don't attack them... well you could try.. but it might not work out so well for you. :)

shadowkhai - I've been playing in the beta releases since last April when beta started and even though it may sound like some of the beta folks have a year of experience to draw from, there are a few things I've learned along the way that impact the game far more than the strategies I've learned.

1) Playing five minutes a day vs. playing five minutes a day five times a day makes a huge difference in how fast you grow. Yes, you can have fun playing five minutes a day during the first month or so of a game, but ultimately the five minutes a day player is not going to stand a chance against an aggressive, fast-growth neighbor (if you're unlucky enough to have one of those). There are wait times built into everything you do in the game, from building to moving to learning talents, so there's an upper limit as to how much time you can really spend managing your empire every day. You aren't going to have to worry about some warlord playing three hours a day and wiping you out. But if you aren't updating your orders multiple times per day every single day, you're not going to keep up.

2) Destroy inactive and weak players and partner with active and strong players. I don't think it's going to possible to truly win a game, even as a trader, without combat being a major component. Not everyone can be your friend. You'll likely find yourself bumping into another player's empire, and making peace to grow in the opposite directions, perhaps a few other players like that along the way and you have an alliance. The problem you'll run into is if you block all growth options. You can't make peace with very side of your empire. And, if you do get stuck, send some colony ships to some other part of the galaxy. But, your home world is always your home world. Lose it, and you lose the game.

3) Don't trust someone so much that you leave yourself undefended. Even allies can become enemies. If you've ever played the game Diplomacy, you'll know exactly what I mean here.

Raven knows the game very well.. :) A side note to number 2...

As long as you own a home world you can't be eliminated.. What this means is.. If you find a weak home world it would serve you well to acquire it. If you take someones home world and it is the "only" home world they had, they will be eliminated from the game. If you own more than one home world, you will be safe. So if you had taken over 10 home worlds, someone would have to eliminate all 10 of your home worlds to eliminate you from the game.

Just because you wipe out someones home world, doesn't mean they are gone from the game.. That might have just been one of their side home worlds, and now you have poked the nest.. :)

For #3 we like to compare the game to a game of survivor. Diplomacy is what ever works at the time... This isn't your kiddy game where you are protected. You can be eliminated, and if you are it's time to learn and move on to the next game. Remember the names you encounter, that's the name that player will always have. Revenge is a dish best served cold (in the immortal words of Khan).

While there isn't going to be just a single player left when the game ends, there could be a lot of players left when the win conditions are met, all the players will get points depending on their ranking, and what they achieved in a specific game, even those that are eliminated will get something. Just play to have fun, and enjoy the game and strategies that you create. Each game starts a new, so you can take what you learn in one, and apply it to a new game.

I'm chomping at the bit, reading all this! I can't wait!! What do you mean about Verisutha and Tsagoth only collecting data, and not to attack them? Just wondering.

Thanks for the home world clarification - didn't know that. Good to know and strengthens the argument to attack other players to collect backup home worlds.

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Originally Posted by ChickenHawk07

I'm chomping at the bit, reading all this! I can't wait!! What do you mean about Verisutha and Tsagoth only collecting data, and not to attack them? Just wondering.

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heh.. They are GM accounts. They will be in every game. While they can be attacked it won't fair well for you, since they have all the skills, and abilities. I'm not saying they can't be killed, it's just not a good idea to attack them. So if they are in your sector ignore them. They are probably just looking at something, either you contacted us about, or someone else contacted us about and they needed to collect info about the sector they might bring a ship there.

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Originally Posted by ravenzachary

Thanks for the home world clarification - didn't know that. Good to know and strengthens the argument to attack other players to collect backup home worlds.

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I thought you might not have been aware of that one.. So I thought I would mention it. I wonder if it's mentioned in any of the tutorial videos... Now I think I need to go and watch the combat video to see.

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Originally Posted by zarkwizard

You can be eliminated, and if you are it's time to learn and move on to the next game.

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One thing I can't remember if we covered during the beta... When you die and you want to join another game, will you be able to see the other game that is waiting to be created and how many people have signed up for it so far? Or do we just sign up and wait a few days until we get a notification.

I think you already told us this, excuse my mild short term memory loss. It is a pre-existing condition.

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Originally Posted by Trom

One thing I can't remember if we covered during the beta... When you die and you want to join another game, will you be able to see the other game that is waiting to be created and how many people have signed up for it so far? Or do we just sign up and wait a few days until we get a notification.

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Any new games available will be listed, there should always be one. You will see how many people have joined and what the cap is for that server.. An example:

Nergal 50/1000 with the game start time (if there aren't enough players to fill it the game will start at that time)

Look, I don't want to be a jerk or anything. If you're involved in the same game as I am, all this worrying about learning curve and what not is really kinda silly. I didn't play in the beta, but I'm about 99.9% sure I'll dominate the first game. Just saying. Don't be mad because you're dealing with a race of superior beings. Some species are simply meant to succeed whereas others are naturally selected to be eliminated from existence.

Play the first game. Have fun. Don't worry about winning because I've got that one covered. I will be selective about games I play so others have a chance to win too.

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Originally Posted by daivos

Look, I don't want to be a jerk or anything. If you're involved in the same game as I am, all this worrying about learning curve and what not is really kinda silly. I didn't play in the beta, but I'm about 99.9% sure I'll dominate the first game. Just saying. Don't be mad because you're dealing with a race of superior beings. Some species are simply meant to succeed whereas others are naturally selected to be eliminated from existence.

Play the first game. Have fun. Don't worry about winning because I've got that one covered. I will be selective about games I play so others have a chance to win too.

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lmao.. Gotta love this one.. I like it.. So everyone has their target and objective.. kill this guy first.. that's right.. don't pay attention to me.. :)