Victory Conditions

[VanderLegion]

Victory conditions really need to be looked at. As far as I can tell, Warlords are the only one's who's conditions change depending on the number of players in the game. Looking at Nergal with over a thousand players, the couple servers I joined right off the bat with between 100 and 200 players, and Atargatis which just started with 31 players, the Trader win requires 4.3 billion CO and 1 billion RO regardless of how many players are in the game. The Research win requires destroying 12 stars regardless of how many players are in the game. Warlord is the only one that varies, and even there, in the 31 player game, it requires destroying 15 homeworlds, which means if half the players decide not to actually start playing, it won't actually be POSSIBLE. Making researcher basically the best option (too bad I didn't think about that until I already picked a different specialization. Hadn't looked at the victory conditions yet at the time...). Considering there was no way I was going to get 4 billion CO and a billion RO on a server with over a hundred players, there's DEFINITELY no way it'll be possible on a server with only 31 or less. It should really vary depending on the number of players on the server...

Edit: Research win should probably vary as well. I have to imagine in the long run (once people start defending their homeworlds) that it'll be far easier to destroy 12 stars than to capture 15+ homeworlds, as you can pick any 12 stars you want for researcher, so you can just hit undefended ones, or ones you control yourself.

[SG7]

Victory conditions really need to be looked at.

I agree. The conditions should be proportional to the number of players. This is especially evident for Warlord and Trader win.

[VanderLegion]

Yah, on a 1300 player server like Nergal, it might be possible to actually complete the trader victory. Not so much on a 30 player one. And on Nergal, the Warlord victory is 689 homeworlds, which seems a tad...excessive. Especially compared to Researchers still only needing to explode 12 stars...

Edit: Granted, Nergal is a tutorial server so you can't actually WIN, but I assume its at least indicative of actual victory conditions for that mnay players?

[SG7]

The conditions should be proportional to the number of players but with some kind of cap.
E.g. Call for destruction of 15 home worlds seems to be very reasonable on server with 130 people.
But on server with 1300 people requirement to kill 150 home worlds would be excessive. What is a reasonable number for this case? I am not sure: maybe 25-30(?) Once people start to defend their home worlds it will not be easy to destroy them.
You made good case for Traders and small Universe.
Since the Researcher is also affected by economic conditions of the Universe some changes should apply to him as well.

[Tsagoth]

The Nergal win conditions are invalid. Nergal was launched long before we settled on the final victory conditions.

[VanderLegion]

The Nergal win conditions are invalid. Nergal was launched long before we settled on the final victory conditions.

That's fine, but even just with the live server's I've looked at it doesn't make sense. On Ninhursag with 168 players, the warlord victory requires 17 homeworld kills. On Atargatis with 31 players you need 15. Seems like there should be a bigger difference there, especially since researcher on either still only needs 12 star kills, and as I said, if people start actually DEFENDING their homeworlds, the research win I think is going to become FAR easier to do than warlord. And that's not even mentioning Trade win, because on a 31 player server no one will ever manage to get 4 billion CO and a billion RO in 2 months. I don't know if you could do it period with only 31 players on the server, but theres NO way it'll happen when you can only set up one trade route per opponent's planet. I spent at least a week or so on Ninhursag with cargo ships running trade routes to every colony I could find in like 6 or 8 sectors and I didn't even get close to 1% for either for trade win. In a 4 sector game, it's just never gonna happen.

[ChickenHawk07]

Tsagoth, can you confirm for me that Ningal's Home World kill count for victory is 50 Home Worlds? There are only 101 players on the server, seems super excessive if you ask me. I do remember there being a bug in one of the servers where you had to change the HW kill count. Please confirm.

[Tsagoth]

I've corrected the win conditions on Ningal.

[ChickenHawk07]

I've corrected the win conditions on Ningal.

Thank you for your quick action :-)

[ChickenHawk07]

Thank you for your quick action :-)

So what exactly is the deal with the Planet Killer win? Taking Home Worlds fills the percentage bar for satisfying the War Lord win, but now I'm hearing that is a bug and only Planet Killers can be used to win for Warlord. What gives?!